2013 一個多小時的美利堅總統就職記. 這回雖然沒有風雪中的馬友友--------.Obama第一任就職
Yo-Yo Ma and the Mind Game of Music
By JOAN ANDERMANOctober 19, 2013
馬友友：令文化與政治經濟平起平坐
訪談JOAN ANDERMAN2013年10月19日
人到中年，馬友友說：「在所有事情里，我最感興趣的莫過於去發現是什麼令人們動起來。」
Paul Morigi/Getty Images for Ovation
馬友友從4歲就開始拉大提琴，如今57歲的他已經榮膺無數格萊美獎，還獲得了國家藝術勳章和總統自由勳章。1998年，馬友友發起了「絲綢之路」(
Silk Road Project)計劃，這是一個非盈利組織，致力於讓全世界的音樂家聚在一起合作。上個月，索尼大師作品公司(Sony Masterworks)發行了他的絲綢之路樂團的
《無疆界之音》(Playlist Without Borders)CD和《坦格伍德現場》(Live From Tanglewood)音樂會DVD。馬友友最近在馬薩諸塞州劍橋家中接受了電話採訪。下面是經過編輯刪節的採訪實錄：
你有沒有想過自己為什麼成了偉大的大提琴音樂家，而不是其他人，是什麼令你脫穎而出？
我得說我也不知道。我出名完全是個意外。我覺得這裡沒什麼規律或者
原因，我也沒怎麼費心去想。我為什麼得到了那些機會？是因為我拉得比別人快？不是。這是一系列環境作用的結果，有些是我自己的努力，有些是父母和老師們努
力的成果，還有那些催化劑，比如搬來美國、上大學、遇到我的妻子，了解我的孩子們。這是一種合力。
今年初的阿斯彭理念節(Aspen Ideas Festival)上，你說自己直到49歲才覺得搞音樂是一件很酷的事。請問這話是什麼意思？
因為我從記事以來一直都在演奏，從來沒對自己說過：「這是我真正想
做的事。」我總在想：「這個，我當初要是搞這個會怎樣，我要是搞那個會怎樣，假如我當初這樣那樣，究竟會發生什麼？」到49歲時，我才發現，在所有事情
里，我最感興趣的莫過於去發現是什麼令人們動起來，人們何以這樣思考，他們何以這樣行動。然後我發現，音樂是一種了不起的方式，可以用來研究人們行為背後
的原因。
會有很多人把音樂當做理解人類行為的工具嗎？我不覺得。
如今我開始以一種更清晰的方式思考音樂。我想說，音樂中的聲音部分
——就是你所聽到的那部分、可以感知到的部分——就像冰山露出水面的山峰，只佔巨大整體的10%。表面之下的才是真正的音樂，浮現在上面的只是聲音。我思
考過鮑勃·迪倫(Bob Dylan)聲音之下掩藏的東西。克里斯·泰爾(Chris Thile)是我在「圈羊四重奏」(
Goat Rodeo Sessions)的合作夥伴，他的聲音中融入了什麼？當他彈奏曼陀鈴時，心裡在想些什麼？這種音樂可以解析，可以複製；但是克里斯·泰爾的世界觀是什麼，是什麼驅使着他對身邊的一切保持開放態度，他又為什麼如此沉迷地品味着咖啡的每一絲細微差別？只有了解了這些，才能真正了解泰爾的音樂。
你多久練一次琴，每次練多久？
掌握音樂更像是學習一門技術。練琴重在質量，而不是數量。有時候我
一練就是好幾個小時，有時候也許只拉幾分鐘。練琴不僅僅是在演奏樂器，自己練琴或者和別人一起排練都是這個道理，想像自己在練琴也是練習的一部分。不管是
想像自己在練琴，還是真的在練琴，大腦都會建立起同樣的神經聯繫和肌肉記憶。
你有沒有那些經常困擾樂手們的健康問題，比如肌腱炎或者背痛之類的？
我想所有樂手都會在某個時期遇上這樣那樣的健康問題。我得過幾次肌腱炎，所以我都盡量小心。戰勝傷病需要耐心和毅力。樂手們經常忘記他們也是運動員，在練習和演出之前做做伸展運動是很重要的。
你曾經談起過「神童綜合症」的危險性，你說過年輕時所做的事情是在為「情感賬戶」做儲蓄，餘生都要從這個賬戶里提款，所以一定要往這個賬戶里放東西。
成長期間我要處理很多現實問題。最早的問題就是處理移民身份。我7歲那年從法國搬到美國，我的父母都是中國人，也就是說我要接受三種不同的觀念。這非常令人困惑。我得動用想像力來彌補鴻溝。
你會不會覺得年輕時接受的嚴格訓練令你錯過了生命中其他重要的東西？
我總是覺得自己錯過了某些東西。這是生活的一部分。而錯過了某些東
西的想法可以用來激勵我所謂的「受訓練的想像力」。我可以想像自己是一個生活在其他時代、其他地點的作曲家，假如沒有這種能力，我會成為一個糟糕的樂手。
假如不能把我的想像力投射到其他人心中去，那麼我將是個最糟糕的樂手。我總是說古典音樂家是法醫般的文化分析者。
25年前，你是否想過自己會獲得格萊美最佳民謠專輯獎？
大概沒有吧。但我不喜歡給音樂分門別類。只有丟開門類的概念才能真正地學習。隨着年齡增長我或許變得更自覺了一些，了解到自己更擅長什麼，不擅長什麼，並且可以接受這一點。
那麼你不擅長什麼呢？
我不擅長體系。我並不偉大，但我會漸漸進步。我的思維方式主要是形狀、動作和圖像，而不是聲音。另外我並不是樂器狂。
你還有什麼未竟的成就渴望去完成嗎？
天哪。我熱衷提升文化的地位，使它能與政治和經濟平起平坐。這個目標能實現嗎？我甚至不知道你能不能衡量它。我覺得如果這個目標能夠實現，人們就能過上更快樂、更美好、更有創造力的生活。
你在藝術與文化宣傳方面所做的工作似乎越來越多。作為一個大提琴手，這也算作是你日常工作和畢生工作的一部分嗎?
不管是在「圈羊四重奏」、「絲綢之路計劃」還是演奏巴赫或者貝多芬
的時候，我一直都在思考這個問題。我從來不去操心，啊，我是否可以重新演奏這個曲目，我是否可以再來這座城市演出。我更關注自己為什麼做這件事，為什麼現
場音樂演奏，或者和一群人一起合作，分享某些東西讓你真心覺得如此重要。
對老年人的歧視在我們的文化中十分盛行，那在古典音樂界呢？
我記得成長期間，有人說不到40歲就拉不好貝多芬的小提琴協奏曲，因為你的閱歷還不夠。
所以古典音樂界是反向的年齡歧視？
後來耶胡迪·梅紐因(Yehudi Menuhin)12歲就拉了貝多芬，皮恩卡斯·祖克曼(Pinchas Zukerman)19歲也做到了。他們破除了這個謊言。
作為音樂家，你比過去有了進步嗎？
我願意這樣想。
有沒有什麼事變得困難了呢？
當然。「絲綢之路」樂團的成員們有20多歲的，還有更年輕的，巡演時我不能熬夜。我可不能像他們那樣在大巴上睡覺。連續缺覺幾天，我的身體就會吃不消。
有沒有什麼你年輕時演奏的曲目，現在不演了，如果有的話，那又是為什麼？
有，不過不是因為身體原因。音樂會的曲目多年來一直都在變，所以有些曲子就沒什麼機會再拉了。
古典音樂家的事業生涯一般都很長，就算偉大的音樂家到後來也會失去一些東西：節奏準確性、音準、對琴弓的控制。你有這樣的經歷嗎。
我想所有音樂家都擔心過這種事，年紀愈大就越擔心。我迄今還算幸運。
名聲有沒有阻礙你和人們以及同行樂手們的交流？
沒有，完全沒有。
你今年57歲，和27歲時相比，音樂帶給你的快樂有什麼不一樣嗎？
20多歲的時候，你想做的事都和自己有關。到了50多歲，最棒的一
件事就是，我非常清楚比我年輕一兩代的人，他們對世界和未來的看法，乃至語言和思維方式都和我這一代非常不同。我仍然好奇，熱愛表演，喜歡參與，但是看到
其他人，看到年輕人做事情會令我非常激動，甚至是更激動。所以我的幸福感和滿足感就擴展了。
有沒有什麼事會讓你萌生退休的想法呢？
我不確定。有時候那些複雜的事情讓人氣餒——旅行的不便、籌款、護照問題。但拉大提琴是我希望能一生從事的事業。在音樂之外我所熱愛的一切都和其他人有關，拉大提琴讓我可以滿足對音樂的所有興趣。
你是否曾為自己的任何選擇感到後悔？
我那些可愛的孩子們在家裡前後住了20年，我記得自己常常給他們讀故事讀到一半就睡著了。我還曾經因為疲憊和壓力，對家人們不夠耐心。如果能夠重來，我會認真審視自己這些年來所做的選擇。
Joan Anderman 是《波士頓環球報》前樂評人。她的博客
middlemojo.com評述藝術家隨着年齡增長如何改變和適應。
本文最初發表於2013年10月10日。
翻譯：董楠
本文內容版權歸紐約時報公司所有，任何單位及個人未經許可，不得擅自轉載或翻譯。
When he reached
middle age, Yo-Yo Ma said, "I realized that of all the things I’m
interested in, the thing I’m most interested in is figuring out what
makes people tick."
Paul Morigi/Getty Images for Ovation
Yo-Yo Ma
began playing the cello at the age of 4. Now 57, he has received
numerous Grammy Awards, the National Medal of Arts and the Presidential
Medal of Freedom. In 1998 Mr. Ma founded the
Silk Road Project,
a nonprofit organization that brings together musicians from around the
world. Last month, Sony Masterworks released his Silk Road Ensemble’s
“Playlist Without Borders”
CD and “Live From Tanglewood” concert DVD. Mr. Ma recently called from
his home in Cambridge, Mass. A condensed and edited version of our
conversation follows:
Do you ever wonder why it was you and not someone else who became a great cellist? What sets you apart?
Let me just say that I have no
idea. I’m an accident. I don’t think there’s a rhyme or reason and I
have spent a lot of time thinking about it. Why do I get these chances?
Is it because I play faster? No. It’s a whole series of circumstances —
some I work for, some come from my parents, my teachers, the points that
are catalytic, the move, going to college, meeting my wife and knowing
my children. It’s a confluence.
Earlier this year at
the Aspen Ideas Festival you said it wasn’t until you turned 49 that you
thought being a musician was cool. What did you mean by that?
Since I always played, as far
as I can remember, I never said, “This is what I want to do.” And I
think I always wondered: “Gee, could I have been this? Could I have done
that? What would have happened if …?” What came up at age 49 is I
realized that of all the things I’m interested in, the thing I’m most
interested in is figuring out what makes people tick, why people think
the way they do, why they act the way they do. And I realized that music
is such a great way to investigate why people do what they do.
I don’t know if a lot of people think of music as a vehicle for understanding human behavior.
I’ve come to think of music in a
way that’s a little clearer now. I would say the sound part of it, what
you hear, the measurable part of the sound, is equivalent to the tip of
an iceberg, less than 10 percent of the whole mass. So what’s below the
surface is actually what
is the music, what’s above is just the sound. I think about what is behind Bob Dylan’s voice. What is infusing my
Goat Rodeo Sessions
band mate Chris Thile’s sound, what is going on in his brain when he
plays the mandolin? You can analyze the music and replicate it but
you’re not really getting to Chris Thile until you understand what his
worldview is, what motivates him to be open to everything around him, to
be obsessive about slight differences in the taste of coffee.
How often to you practice, and for how long?
Mastering music is more than
learning technical skills. Practicing is about quality, not quantity.
Some days I practice for hours; other days it will be just a few
minutes. Practicing is not only playing your instrument, either by
yourself or rehearsing with others — it also includes imagining yourself
practicing. Your brain forms the same neural connections and muscle
memory whether you are imagining the task or actually doing it.
Have you experienced any of the physical problems that often plague musicians, like tendinitis or back pain?
I think all musicians have at
one time or another experienced one physical problem or another. I have
had tendinitis a couple of times, so I try to be really careful. It
takes patience and persistence to overcome injury. Musicians often
forget they are athletes and that it’s important to stretch before and
after practicing or performing.
You’ve spoken about the
perils of the child prodigy syndrome, saying that what you do when
you’re young creates your emotional bank account and that you’ll be
drawing from it the rest of your life, so be sure the stuff you put in
there counts.
I think when I was growing up I
was dealing with a number of realities. The primary one involved being
an immigrant. I moved from France to the United States when I was 7, and
I had Chinese parents, which meant that I had three sets of divergent
points of view broadcasting in my ears. It was very confusing. I needed
to use my imagination to fill the gaps.
Do you feel that, because you trained so rigorously throughout your youth, you missed out on other important parts of life?
I always feel I miss out on
things. That’s part of living. And the idea that you’re missing out on
things can be used as fuel for developing what I call a disciplined
imagination. I would be a terrible musician if I couldn’t put myself in
the mind of a composer who lived in a different time, a different place.
I would be the worst musician if I can’t somehow project my imagination
into someone else’s mind. I often say that to be a classical musician
is to be a forensic cultural analyst.
Twenty-five years ago could you have imagined that you would win a Grammy for best folk album?
Probably not. But I don’t like
to think in categories. To really learn you have to take away the
categories. And maybe part of growing older is I’m slightly more
self-aware, in the sense that I know some things that I’m good at and
other things I’m not really good at, and I can accept that.
What are you not good at?
I’m not good at systems. I’m
not great but I’ve become better at process. I think in shapes and in
movement and images much more than in sound. I’m not an instrument
freak.
What would you like to accomplish that you haven’t yet?
Oh, boy. I’m interested in
pushing for the role of culture to have an equal place at the table of
politics and economics. Is that an achievable goal? I don’t even know
whether you can measure that. I think we would have a much happier, more
fruitful and productive society if that were true.
Your role as an arts
and culture advocate seems to be growing. Is it as much a part of your
day’s work and life’s work as playing the cello?
It’s what I think about all the
time, whether I’m playing Goat Rodeo Sessions or Silk Road or Bach or
Beethoven. I never worry that, ugh, I’m playing this piece again, I’m
playing this town again. I’m so much more involved in why I do it, why
live music or being present with a group of people to share something
you really believe in is important.
Ageism is rampant in our culture. What about in classical music?
I remember growing up and
people saying you can’t play the Beethoven Violin Concerto until you’re
40 because you’re just not ready to do it.
So there’s reverse ageism?
Then Yehudi Menuhin came along and played it at 12, and Pinchas Zukerman at age 19, and they gave the lie to that saying.
Are you a better musician now than you’ve ever been?
I’d like to think so.
Are some things harder?
Sure. The members of the Silk
Road Ensemble, they’re 20 years or more younger, and if we’re on tour I
can’t stay up as late. I can’t sleep on the bus the way they can. If I
do a couple of short nights in a row, my body will pay the price.
Are there pieces you played when you were younger that you no longer play, and if so why?
Yes, but not for physical
reasons. Concert repertoire has changed over the years, so there are
fewer opportunities to perform some pieces.
While classical
musicians tend to have long careers, even the greats start to lose
something: rhythmic precision, intonation, bow control. Have you
experienced these sorts of losses?
I think every musician worries about these things, and more so with age. I’ve been fortunate so far.
Does fame make it harder to connect with people and fellow musicians?
No, not at all.
Is the gratification you get from music different at 57 than it was at 27?
When you’re in your 20s you
want to do it all yourself, and the great thing about being in my 50s is
I’m super aware of one if not two generations of people that are
younger, and their concepts of the world, the future, language, thinking
patterns, are all very different from mine. I’m still really curious
and I still love to perform and get my hands dirty, but I get such a
huge thrill, maybe even a greater thrill, from seeing other, younger
people doing things. So the sense of joy or satisfaction has expanded.
What, if anything, would make you think about retirement?
I’m not sure. Some days the
complications — travel difficulties, fund-raising, visa issues — can
seem a little daunting, but playing the cello is what I wanted to do
with my life. All the things I love about life outside music have to do
with people, and playing the cello allows me to fulfill all those
interests through music.
Do you regret choices you’ve made?
I remember 20 years of having
unbelievable children at home and falling asleep reading stories to
them. I remember being impatient with my family members because I was so
tired and stressed out. If I were to do it over again I would seriously
look at the quality of decisions made during those years.
Joan Anderman, a former music critic for The Boston Globe, writes a blog,
middlemojo.com, that explores, among other things, how artists change and adapt as they age.
More Creative Mid-Life profiles can be
found here.
Booming: Living Through the Middle Ages offers news and commentary about baby boomers, anchored by
Michael Winerip. You can follow Booming via
RSS here or visit
nytimes.com/booming. You can reach us by e-mail at booming@nytimes.com.
Members of the Tochigi Girls' Senior High School team after winning the grand prix at the All Japan Manga Contest on Aug. 8 in Kochi. (The Asahi Shimbun)
A work by the Tochigi team that won in the early stages of the competition. (The Asahi Shimbun)
The winning work by the Tochigi team. (The Asahi Shimbun)
